iron in the body
Question:
My coment would be that the Dr. used the word "normal" as a qualification. As a person who has had many iron and blood transfusion, I defy anyone to classify me as normal. Well, I think you take my meaning. I have been landed in the hospital for an emergency resection by one MD who figured all I needed was a good dose of fiber in my diet to make me regular, well in addition to not being normal, fiber does NOT make me regular. For myself, I seek out medical advice, but I also spend a lot of time communicating to my Dr. what affects my body, and if the doctor doesn’t want to listen, then I find another doctor. Just my 2 cents Cliff
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Going vegetarian would not help with this. > Got a Phd there do ya .. deejay? 
> Seems you tend to disagree with Dr. Lauffer in your belief. > He tends to think the normal meat consumer .. when he/she quits eating > meat would take about seven years to use up the iron which they have > accumulated over the years. > You DO lose iron in your blood, sweat and tears.. sounds like the > name of a band.. > Who loves ya. > Tom > — > Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
> I tons of red meat! > this even is the basement of my diet. Without it, I would not have been able > to cope when I was losing a lot of blood. > Please stop telling people that are loosing blood all the time they should > stop eating red meat. This sound criminal to me.
Iron content of meat linked to heart attack March 01, 1999 NEW YORK (Reuters Health)–Elderly individuals are at greater risk of having a fatal heart attack if they consume a diet that is rich in heme iron, according to a study conducted in the Netherlands. In a study of more than 4,800 people, those who consumed the highest amounts of heme iron – found in meat, fish, and poultry – had almost double the risk of heart attack compared with those who consumed the lowest levels. Further analysis of the data "indicated that the association of heme iron with (heart attack) was more pronounced in fatal cases," the researchers write. During the 4-year study, 124 of the subjects had either a fatal or non-fatal heart attack, reported Dr. Kerstin Klipstein-Grobusch from the Erasmus University Medical School in Rotterdam, and colleagues in the American Journal of Epidemiology. Those who had the lowest daily total dietary iron had an average intake of 9.3 milligrams, while those in the highest level had an average daily intake of 14.3 milligrams – although total iron was not related to heart attack risk. Average daily intakes for heme iron were 0.48 milligrams and 1.36 milligrams for the lowest and highest consumers, respectively. The authors note that the association between elevated levels of heme iron and heart attack in the presence of other risk factors is "compatible with the hypothesis that iron plays a role in promoting LDL cholesterol oxidation," thereby increasing the risk of cardiovascular disease. The team concludes that "a high dietary heme iron intake increases the risk of myocardial infarction in the presence of other risk factors and may specifically affect its fatality." Pathobiology 1997;65(2):61-8 Direct evidence that iron deprivation induces apoptosis in murine lymphoma 38C13. Kovar J, Stunz LL, Stewart BC, Kriegerbeckova K, Ashman RF, Kemp JD Department of Pathology, University of Iowa College of Medicine, Iowa City 52242, USA. We found that the mouse B cell lymphoma 38C13 underwent apoptosis in vitro when deprived of iron by three independent methods: (1) exposure to a synergistic pair of rat IgG monoclonal antibodies against the mouse transferrin receptor; (2) exposure to the iron chelator deferoxamine (DFO), and (3) exposure to a defined culture medium without any added iron (iron-poor medium). When each antibody was present at a concentration of 5 micrograms/ml, the number of living cells declined to approximately 25% after a 24-hour incubation. After 48 h, there were no surviving cells. When DFO was present at a concentration of 10 microM, the effects were similar, but delayed by 24 h. when iron-poor medium was used, the effects and kinetics were similar to those seen with antibody treatment. For each method of iron deprivation, the reduction in cell viability correlated with the development of apoptosis, as assessed by DNA fragmentation analysis and propidium iodide staining. Electron microscopy studies provided additional confirmation of apoptotic cell death. The addition of 500 microM ferric citrate completely prevented apoptosis for each of the three methods of iron deprivation. These studies provide new and compelling evidence to support the view that iron deprivation can specifically induce apoptosis and serve to strengthen the rationale for further studies of iron deprivation as a form of cancer treatment. PMID: 9253029, UI: 97396877 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc FEBS Lett 1994 Aug 15;350(1):139-42 Iron deprivation-induced apoptosis in HL-60 cells. Fukuchi K, Tomoyasu S, Tsuruoka N, Gomi K Department of Clinical Pathology, School of Medicine, Showa University, Tokyo, Japan. Iron deprivation of HL-60 cells with deferoxamine B mesylate (DFO) induced apoptosis. DNA fragmentation became apparent with 10(-6) M DFO after 48 h treatment. The apoptosis peak according to the DNA histogram on flow cytometry and typical nuclear collapse and were observed microscopically after 48 h treatment with 10(-4) M DFO. Cells treated with 10(-4) M DFO for as little as 24 h were shown to be committed to apoptosis, as chromatin condensation progressed gradually thereafter. PMID: 8062913, UI: 94341362 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Exp Hematol 1995 May;23(5):428-32 Induction of apoptosis by iron deprivation in human leukemic CCRF-CEM cells. Haq RU, Wereley JP, Chitambar CR Department of Medicine, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee 53226, USA. It is known that iron is essential for cell growth and viability and that iron deprivation results in an inhibition in the synthesis of deoxyribonucleotides. However, steps leading to eventual cell death during iron deprivation are not fully understood. In the present study, we report that cellular iron-deficiency produced by exposure of human leukemic CCRF-CEM cells to gallium or the iron chelator deferoxamine (DFX) resulted in the inhibition of cell growth, condensation of chromatin, and the formation of DNA fragments (DNA-ladder), findings that are characteristic of apoptotic cell death. These effects of gallium and DFX were detected after a 48-hour incubation with cells and could be prevented by ferric ammonium citrate (FAC). Iron-deprivation produced a small increase in the endogenous expression of bcl-2 protein. Our studies provide additional information regarding the mechanism of cytotoxicity of gallium and DFX, and suggest, for the first time, a role for iron in the suppression of apoptotic cell death. PMID: 7720813, UI: 95237316 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Br J Haematol 1995 Jan;89(1):181-7 Iron chelators induce apoptosis in proliferating cells. Hileti D, Panayiotidis P, Hoffbrand AV Department of Haematology, Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine, London. The iron chelators 1,2-dimethyl-3-hydroxypyrid-4-one (L1) and desferrioxamine (DFO) were found to induce apoptosis of proliferating activated T-lymphocytes and of the promyelocytic cell line HL60, but not of resting peripheral blood lymphocytes or granulocytes. The induction of apoptosis was quantified by propidium iodide staining of apoptotic/dead cells and flow cytometry. In activated T-lymphocytes incubated with the chelators at equivalent iron-binding concentrations (300 microM L1 or 100 microM DFO) for 24 h, L1 caused a 54% increase in cell death and DFO a 57% increase. In HL60 cells L1 caused a 50% increase in cell death and DFO a 40% increase. DNA cytofluorometry of HL60 cells treated with either chelator showed an increase in the percentage of cells with hypodiploid DNA content. Presaturation of the chelators with ferric chloride abrogated these effects. L1 and DFO did not induce apoptosis in resting peripheral blood lymphocytes or granulocytes, even after 48 h of incubation. PMID: 7833261, UI: 95134662 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc From The June 2000 Issue of Nutrition Science News Phytic acid–also called inositol hexaphosphate, or IP6–is comprised of six phosphorus molecules and one molecule of inositol. It has been mistakenly described for decades as an "anti-nutrient" because it impairs mineral absorption. However, in the 1980s food biochemist Ernst Graf, Ph.D., began to tout phytic acid for its beneficial antioxidant properties achieved through mineral chelation.32 Phytic acid is such a potent–but safe–iron and mineral chelator that it may someday replace intravenous chelation therapy such as the mineral-chelator EDTA or iron-binding drugs such as desferrioxamine (Desferal). Because of its ability to bind to iron and block iron-driven hydroxyl radical generation (water-based) as well as suppress lipid peroxidation (fat-based), phytic acid has been used successfully as an antioxidant food preservative.34 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
I tons of red meat! this even is the basement of my diet. Without it, I would not have been able to cope when I was losing a lot of blood. Please stop telling people that are loosing blood all the time they should stop eating red meat. This sound criminal to me. Noella – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most of the people here, who eat meats, have problems with "red" meats, > mainly beef, which is actually the main source of iron from animal sources. > Blood is.. actually ‘heme’iron is.. This iron binds to all other iron > ingested with it and thusly even the lowly white fish is HIGH in iron > contrary to what nutritionists and researchers will tell you. > So if you eat white fish ALONE it IS ’somewhat’ low in iron.. but since it > is absorbed at four times the rate of iron found in plants/supplements.. > just because it ‘measures’ LOW on the iron ‘containing’ meter.. teh fct > that it is absorbed at four times the rate MAKES it a ‘high’ iron source > of food.. > They also have problems absorbing the iron that is available, due to damage, > and dysfunction in the digestive tract. > Iron is absorbed in a certain ‘portion’ of the gut. > This ‘portion’ of the gut is .. coincidentally? .. the SAME portion > of the gut which CONTROLS the absorption of iron. > The body controls the absorption of iron by absorbing it into cells > in the gut wall and if the body doesn’t need this iron these cells > are ’sloughed off’. When we have TOO MUCH iron in the body.. these cells > are sloughed off at a high rate.. TOO HIGH a rate.. leaving a raw.. gut. > Ever hear of that..? > Sliding down a rope too fast .. brings up the same type of pain. > In all the literature there is no > association of any kind of IBD with excess iron. All mentions of iron in the > literature of IBD refer to iron deficiency. > Ever hear of anemia of chronic disease? > This is the bodies immune system response to an invader. > When we are attacked by a virus/cancer/bacteria the body > removes/sequesters the iron OUT of the blood .. effectively producing to > the naked eye.. an anemia? > Unless your doctor is one of the ‘fifty percent’ who can actually DO a > ‘proper’ iron workup.. you most likely will be prescribed.. iron. > Which HAS been shown to cause diabetes.. cancer (PROVEN) .. the gamut of > disease. > I actually do believe you mean well, and wish to help people, but this > group is an impossibility for your particular programs. I would think that > there must be cardiac support groups, or better yet, hepatic disease groups, > like support groups for hepatitis, and hepatic carcinoma. These are more > inclined to be affected by the issues you raise, and might be able to > benefit as well. Thanks for your trying to help, anyway. > You forgot leprosy? > How about cancer? > How about diabetes? > Oh there are PLENTY of places I ‘could’ be.. but this is one of the > places which BARRED me from posting over five years ago.. and this is > the disease which KEPT me going for the first few years of my work. > KIDS get colitis.. and now that they have found chelators to be of use in > this disease.. is JUST the impetus I need to ‘get in their faces’? > How many miles of gut .. from kids .. is laying in the ‘toxic waste bins’ > in the hospitals over five years? > Don’t worry it will be only a matter of time.. before I .. troll off .. as > some of you like to call me.. but how else could I do my work? > And some people like to say.. AGENDA .. as if I am some sort of vegetarian > health nut. > If I was a ‘health’ nut I wouldn’t smoke as much as I do? > Nope.. just someone who BELIEVES what he says.. just like a few otheer > researchers over the centuries .. > And like I have said.. I’ve been told "no amount of medical articles will > ’sway’ me from what.. I.. believe!" > — > Who loves ya. > Tom > Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
> Most of the people here, who eat meats, have problems with "red" meats, > mainly beef, which is actually the main source of iron from animal sources.
Blood is.. actually ‘heme’iron is.. This iron binds to all other iron ingested with it and thusly even the lowly white fish is HIGH in iron contrary to what nutritionists and researchers will tell you. So if you eat white fish ALONE it IS ’somewhat’ low in iron.. but since it is absorbed at four times the rate of iron found in plants/supplements.. just because it ‘measures’ LOW on the iron ‘containing’ meter.. teh fct that it is absorbed at four times the rate MAKES it a ‘high’ iron source of food.. > They also have problems absorbing the iron that is available, due to damage, > and dysfunction in the digestive tract.
Iron is absorbed in a certain ‘portion’ of the gut. This ‘portion’ of the gut is .. coincidentally? .. the SAME portion of the gut which CONTROLS the absorption of iron. The body controls the absorption of iron by absorbing it into cells in the gut wall and if the body doesn’t need this iron these cells are ’sloughed off’. When we have TOO MUCH iron in the body.. these cells are sloughed off at a high rate.. TOO HIGH a rate.. leaving a raw.. gut. Ever hear of that..? Sliding down a rope too fast .. brings up the same type of pain. > In all the literature there is no > association of any kind of IBD with excess iron. All mentions of iron in the > literature of IBD refer to iron deficiency.
Ever hear of anemia of chronic disease? This is the bodies immune system response to an invader. When we are attacked by a virus/cancer/bacteria the body removes/sequesters the iron OUT of the blood .. effectively producing to the naked eye.. an anemia? Unless your doctor is one of the ‘fifty percent’ who can actually DO a ‘proper’ iron workup.. you most likely will be prescribed.. iron. Which HAS been shown to cause diabetes.. cancer (PROVEN) .. the gamut of disease. > I actually do believe you mean well, and wish to help people, but this > group is an impossibility for your particular programs. I would think that > there must be cardiac support groups, or better yet, hepatic disease groups, > like support groups for hepatitis, and hepatic carcinoma. These are more > inclined to be affected by the issues you raise, and might be able to > benefit as well. Thanks for your trying to help, anyway.
You forgot leprosy? How about cancer? How about diabetes? Oh there are PLENTY of places I ‘could’ be.. but this is one of the places which BARRED me from posting over five years ago.. and this is the disease which KEPT me going for the first few years of my work. KIDS get colitis.. and now that they have found chelators to be of use in this disease.. is JUST the impetus I need to ‘get in their faces’? How many miles of gut .. from kids .. is laying in the ‘toxic waste bins’ in the hospitals over five years? Don’t worry it will be only a matter of time.. before I .. troll off .. as some of you like to call me.. but how else could I do my work? And some people like to say.. AGENDA .. as if I am some sort of vegetarian health nut. If I was a ‘health’ nut I wouldn’t smoke as much as I do? Nope.. just someone who BELIEVES what he says.. just like a few otheer researchers over the centuries .. And like I have said.. I’ve been told "no amount of medical articles will ’sway’ me from what.. I.. believe!" — Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
Well said, Boyd! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Tom, > There is no doubt that excess iron can cause severe disease >consequences. You have cited an example with liver cancer (the only citation >you have provided about anything). I believe that additional serious >problems with excess iron are found in cardiac diseases. > The problem here is that in all forms of IBD there tends to be a great >deal of bleeding involved, when people are in an active disease state. I, >myself, required 2 units of blood while in the hospital for the 1st time >with UC. I think everybody understands that bleeding causes depletion of >iron. > Most of the people here, who eat meats, have problems with "red" meats, >mainly beef, which is actually the main source of iron from animal sources. >They also have problems absorbing the iron that is available, due to damage, >and dysfunction in the digestive tract. In all the literature there is no >association of any kind of IBD with excess iron. All mentions of iron in the >literature of IBD refer to iron deficiency. This is without any exceptions. > The single thing, which is nearly universal, and affects everybody here >on this list, at least when their disease is active, is that they have >problems with vegetable materials, raw vegetables in particular, are simply >not usable by most people on this list. Cooked vegetables are better >tolerated, but still problematic, and many cannot be used. The reason for >this is that we do not have the digestive system of a carnivore. We do not >have the digestive system of a vegetarian. We do not have the digestive >system of an omnivore. We do not have the digestive system of any kind of >healthy human being. Whether or not they want to, most people on this list >are simply not capable of being vegetarians, however much they might wish. > I actually do believe you mean well, and wish to help people, but this >group is an impossibility for your particular programs. I would think that >there must be cardiac support groups, or better yet, hepatic disease groups, >like support groups for hepatitis, and hepatic carcinoma. These are more >inclined to be affected by the issues you raise, and might be able to >benefit as well. Thanks for your trying to help, anyway. >Boyd >"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." >(Ellen Parr- author) > > Going vegetarian would not help with this. > Got a Phd there do ya .. deejay? > Seems you tend to disagree with Dr. Lauffer in your belief. > He tends to think the normal meat consumer .. when he/she quits eating > meat would take about seven years to use up the iron which they have > accumulated over the years. > You DO lose iron in your blood, sweat and tears.. sounds like the > name of a band.. > Who loves ya. > Tom > — > Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
> Going vegetarian would not help with this.
Got a Phd there do ya .. deejay? Seems you tend to disagree with Dr. Lauffer in your belief. He tends to think the normal meat consumer .. when he/she quits eating meat would take about seven years to use up the iron which they have accumulated over the years. You DO lose iron in your blood, sweat and tears.. sounds like the name of a band.. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
> Members of my family have a genetic hereditary condition called hemochromatosis > where the body stores iron in various organs. Too much iron can cause many > adverse symptoms and so the iron(ferretin) level has to gradually be reduced > and then maintained by regular phlebotomy. > Going vegetarian would not help with this. > deejay
Oops .. I did it again .. You are right about the hereditary hemochromatosis.. They/you do absorb too much iron even from your plant diet. You DO have to donate blood on a regular basis .. although there is one man on the excess-iron list who was first diagnosed with celiac disease and when treated/cured of this was found to have iron overload. He has found by going vegetarian .. for the past few years .. his iron levels have NOT risen appreciably .. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
Tom, There is no doubt that excess iron can cause severe disease consequences. You have cited an example with liver cancer (the only citation you have provided about anything). I believe that additional serious problems with excess iron are found in cardiac diseases. The problem here is that in all forms of IBD there tends to be a great deal of bleeding involved, when people are in an active disease state. I, myself, required 2 units of blood while in the hospital for the 1st time with UC. I think everybody understands that bleeding causes depletion of iron. Most of the people here, who eat meats, have problems with "red" meats, mainly beef, which is actually the main source of iron from animal sources. They also have problems absorbing the iron that is available, due to damage, and dysfunction in the digestive tract. In all the literature there is no association of any kind of IBD with excess iron. All mentions of iron in the literature of IBD refer to iron deficiency. This is without any exceptions. The single thing, which is nearly universal, and affects everybody here on this list, at least when their disease is active, is that they have problems with vegetable materials, raw vegetables in particular, are simply not usable by most people on this list. Cooked vegetables are better tolerated, but still problematic, and many cannot be used. The reason for this is that we do not have the digestive system of a carnivore. We do not have the digestive system of a vegetarian. We do not have the digestive system of an omnivore. We do not have the digestive system of any kind of healthy human being. Whether or not they want to, most people on this list are simply not capable of being vegetarians, however much they might wish. I actually do believe you mean well, and wish to help people, but this group is an impossibility for your particular programs. I would think that there must be cardiac support groups, or better yet, hepatic disease groups, like support groups for hepatitis, and hepatic carcinoma. These are more inclined to be affected by the issues you raise, and might be able to benefit as well. Thanks for your trying to help, anyway. Boyd "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Going vegetarian would not help with this. > Got a Phd there do ya .. deejay? > Seems you tend to disagree with Dr. Lauffer in your belief. > He tends to think the normal meat consumer .. when he/she quits eating > meat would take about seven years to use up the iron which they have > accumulated over the years. > You DO lose iron in your blood, sweat and tears.. sounds like the > name of a band.. > Who loves ya. > Tom > — > Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
Following on from a message on ParaTB and iron intake I would like to point out that iron does have an effect on microbes in the body. Nearly all bacteria, friendly and unfriendly, in the guts are stimulated by iron. It seems to play a part in microbial growth being necessary for nearly all infective organisms to grow and cause infection. So if MAP is present and there is plenty of iron around it can only help to sustain the MAP. But iron levels cannot be reduced by diet. It can only be reduced by giving blood (phebotomy). Members of my family have a genetic hereditary condition called hemochromatosis where the body stores iron in various organs. Too much iron can cause many adverse symptoms and so the iron(ferretin) level has to gradually be reduced and then maintained by regular phlebotomy. Going vegetarian would not help with this. deejay http://www.zfree.co.nz
Response:
I agree, that iron can help MAP. I think that is one of the ways that the SCD may work. It reduces iron in the diet by avoiding canned and processed foods. (of course they say it is the carbs it may be both). Smoking also increases iron. CD is more pronounced in smokers. Heck I will even go further, a test for antibodies to brewer’s or baker’s yeast is helpful in DXing CD. [This is my theory and is not endorsed by Dr. Shafran] I will start with basic "facts" Baker’s yeast(80%) is in the macrophages in about 4 hours. MAP lives(survives) in the macrophage. Cattle licks and feed contain baker’s yeast. The increase of Johne’s disease in cattle seems to correlate with the increase use of baker’s yeast in the feed. Baker’s yeast is iron "rich" Baker’s yeast is not SCD legal Baker’s yeast and MAP both thrive in the same pH range In a healthy person Baker’s yeast is out of the system in 5 days. Now on to the theory. (this is unproven and has not been tested) Baker’s yeast is ingested and "eaten by the macrophage(white blood cell) and killed. The MAP is ingested and eaten by the now iron fat macrophage. The macrophage is unable to kill the MAP. The MAP lives fat and happy on the iron fat macrophage until it is all used up. The macrophage commits "suicide" or is "murdered" by the MAP. In the process of dying it injures or kills the MAP. the dead macrophage and MAP are quickly eaten by another macrophage. Because this on is able to digest the proteins in to peptides it can "show" the peptides and create a immuno response. The antibodies created would be a mix of the MAP, Macrophage and the baker’s yeast. This would explain 1)why the antibody to the yeast would be a marker. 2)why the body attacks it’s self 3)why MAP is found in CD 4)elimination of MAP drops both the MAP antibodies and the yeast antibodies That is my theory and if it bears fruit, you heard it here first. Comments are welcome. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Following on from a message on ParaTB and iron intake I would like to point >out that iron does have an effect on microbes in the body. >Nearly all bacteria, friendly and unfriendly, in the guts are stimulated >by iron. It seems to play a part in microbial growth being necessary for >nearly all infective organisms to grow and cause infection. So if MAP is >present and there is plenty of iron around it can only help to sustain the >MAP. >But iron levels cannot be reduced by diet. It can only be reduced by giving >blood (phebotomy). >Members of my family have a genetic hereditary condition called hemochromatosis >where the body stores iron in various organs. Too much iron can cause many >adverse symptoms and so the iron(ferretin) level has to gradually be reduced >and then maintained by regular phlebotomy. >Going vegetarian would not help with this. >deejay >http://www.zfree.co.nz
All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Copyright
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