"Hemmorhoids" a misdiagnosis of fistulae?
Question:
Yes, most likely your father has had this for years, undiagnosed. This is not uncommon, especially among those of past generations. Even today CD is hard to properly dx and people can go years before they are properly dx’ed. At least now you know what you are dealing with and he can be properly treated. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > OMFG.. > Well okay, that is in fact extremely horrible. > Sorry to be posting these newbie questions.. hopefully, as I > mentioned, I can begin to get my brain around this whole syndrome soon > and stop pestering you with elemental questions like these. > fwiw, this is a condition I’ve had absolutely no need to know about > till my dad’s diagnosis. On the one hand, it’s fascinating to begin to > understand a whole new arena of discovery, on the other, I have such > incredible sympathy for you folks who have suffered for ages.. =( > I have no idea what the prognosis for my dad will be. The doc removed > the portion of colon that seemed to be inflamed. And now that he knows > what the issue is, he can stop pounding down the metamucil (which I > understand is aggravating to Crohn’s), and make other lifestyle > changes, initially adopted without the insight of his true condition. > Good god, when I was a CHILD (30 years ago) he had explosive diarrhea, > needed to stop frequently at bathrooms, and got horrible cramps after > certain meals. Could it possibly be that he’s had this damn thing for > decades without a proper diagnosis? Yeesh. > Thanks for your input. > BLink >While they both hurt, there is no mistaking hemorrhoids for fistulae. The pain of a fistulae is wholly intolerable. I’ve described it to others as sitting on a nail while trying to go about your day, even when in the standing position. Not to mention that often a fistula will drain pus from an infection as well as fecal material where bowel is involved. And, with this added passage, there is no sphincter muscle to control the outflow of materials so they flow out on their own schedule, which can be quite embarrassing at times. Sometimes you feel like the only solution would be adult pull ups, which I have yet to see an adequate product for in your average supermarket or pharmacy. >mgbio >>Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you >>haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about >>2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. >>Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may >>be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). >>Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s >>aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few >>unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ >>So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family >>have any warning signs. >>My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become >>concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated >>when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning >>sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, >>and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit >>some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. >>The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for >>hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? >>Thanks >>BLink
Response:
> The common sense reaction is > 1. If it is found in Johne’s cattle > 2. If those cattle continue to produce milk > 3. If MAP cannot be killed through Pasteurization > 4. It’s logical to suspect it getting into peoples’ guts.
Ah, ok that would make sense
Response:
[Violet Tigress] > I know this may sound bad, but what is MAP? I mean, I gather that > it’s bacteria sometiimes fond in milk, but I could never figure out > what the correlation to IBD was.
[Brian Link] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mycobacterium Avium Paratuberculosis. It’s found in the colons of > cattle with Johne’s disease, but is extremely difficult to culture for > in humans due to the fact it only divides once or twice a day. > The ability to culture it and locate it in assays of Crohn’s sufferers > is not insignificant, even though there’s no direct evidence of > transmission yet. > The common sense reaction is > 1. If it is found in Johne’s cattle > 2. If those cattle continue to produce milk > 3. If MAP cannot be killed through Pasteurization > 4. It’s logical to suspect it getting into peoples’ guts. > Crohn’s colons look like Johne’s colons. This observation was made > back in 1913.
Quite a good summary considering how short it is 
[Brian Link] > So we’ve got a ton of circumstantial evidence, no smoking gun yet > though.
And therein lies the rub: who classifies what as the smoking gun? I can tell you that the standard veterinary interpretation is that detection of MAP in the bloodstream is the definitive smoking gun which proves that the animal has clinical Johnes Disease. Interestingly, Dr. Saleh Naser just published the work where he detected MAP in the bloodstreams of Crohn’s Disease patients. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… To the average human gastroenterologist however, since they tend to have a poor understanding of infectious diseases (e.g. Helicobacter Pylori), and of mycobacteriology in particular, they probably wouldn’t recognise a smoking gun, even if it went off right in their faces and covered them in burn and powder marks. Alan. CD, Class of 1979.
Response:
Yes I think there could’ve been a misdiagnose. Four years ago they told me I had hemmrroids and they sent me home with suppositories. The doctors also told me I had a light case of colitis but failed to mention how bad the condition could get. They did bleed off and on for months but didn’t think to much of it because after all I thought it was just hemmrroids. A year later I landed myself in the hospital with Ulcerative colits. I was in hosp. for three weeks with UC and they wanted to take my colon out, I am so glad i got out of there. Those stupid doctors just want to rush in surgery. Tip: get second opinions. I don’t care what any doctor says food and lifestyle are huge part of this disease. When I went to Italy for two weeks nobody even really knew what UC was. Everything they eat over there is homeade none of this perservative junk food. Well just some thoughts.
Response:
While they both hurt, there is no mistaking hemorrhoids for fistulae. The pain of a fistulae is wholly intolerable. I’ve described it to others as sitting on a nail while trying to go about your day, even when in the standing position. Not to mention that often a fistula will drain pus from an infection as well as fecal material where bowel is involved. And, with this added passage, there is no sphincter muscle to control the outflow of materials so they flow out on their own schedule, which can be quite embarrassing at times. Sometimes you feel like the only solution would be adult pull ups, which I have yet to see an adequate product for in your average supermarket or pharmacy. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you > haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about > 2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. > Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may > be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). > Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s > aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few > unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ > So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family > have any warning signs. > My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become > concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated > when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning > sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, > and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit > some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. > The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for > hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? > Thanks > BLink
Response:
OMFG.. Well okay, that is in fact extremely horrible. Sorry to be posting these newbie questions.. hopefully, as I mentioned, I can begin to get my brain around this whole syndrome soon and stop pestering you with elemental questions like these. fwiw, this is a condition I’ve had absolutely no need to know about till my dad’s diagnosis. On the one hand, it’s fascinating to begin to understand a whole new arena of discovery, on the other, I have such incredible sympathy for you folks who have suffered for ages.. =( I have no idea what the prognosis for my dad will be. The doc removed the portion of colon that seemed to be inflamed. And now that he knows what the issue is, he can stop pounding down the metamucil (which I understand is aggravating to Crohn’s), and make other lifestyle changes, initially adopted without the insight of his true condition. Good god, when I was a CHILD (30 years ago) he had explosive diarrhea, needed to stop frequently at bathrooms, and got horrible cramps after certain meals. Could it possibly be that he’s had this damn thing for decades without a proper diagnosis? Yeesh. Thanks for your input. BLink – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >While they both hurt, there is no mistaking hemorrhoids for fistulae. The pain of a fistulae is wholly intolerable. I’ve described it to others as sitting on a nail while trying to go about your day, even when in the standing position. Not to mention that often a fistula will drain pus from an infection as well as fecal material where bowel is involved. And, with this added passage, there is no sphincter muscle to control the outflow of materials so they flow out on their own schedule, which can be quite embarrassing at times. Sometimes you feel like the only solution would be adult pull ups, which I have yet to see an adequate product for in your average supermarket or pharmacy. >mgbio > Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you > haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about > 2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. > Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may > be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). > Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s > aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few > unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ > So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family > have any warning signs. > My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become > concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated > when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning > sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, > and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit > some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. > The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for > hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? > Thanks > BLink
Response:
RE: Re: "Hemmorhoids" a misdiagnosis of fistulae? >Sorry to be posting these newbie questions.. hopefully, as I >mentioned, I can begin to get my brain around this whole syndrome soon >and stop pestering you with elemental questions like these.
- No problem. Just be prepared to get more information and opinions than you ever thought was possible! – >fwiw, this is a condition I’ve had absolutely no need to know about >till my dad’s diagnosis. On the one hand, it’s fascinating to begin to >understand a whole new arena of discovery, on the other, I have such >incredible sympathy for you folks who have suffered for ages.. =( >I have no idea what the prognosis for my dad will be. The doc removed >the portion of colon that seemed to be inflamed. And now that he knows >what the issue is, he can stop pounding down the metamucil (which I >understand is aggravating to Crohn’s), and make other lifestyle >changes, initially adopted without the insight of his true condition. >Good god, when I was a CHILD (30 years ago) he had explosive diarrhea, >needed to stop frequently at bathrooms, and got horrible cramps after >certain meals. Could it possibly be that he’s had this damn thing for >decades without a proper diagnosis? Yeesh.
- From what I have seen and learned and heard from this group, I would say that yes, he could have had this for a long time, undiagnosed. – My ex-wife was diagnosed with a spastic colon. Looking back at all the symptoms over the years there is a clear pattern which points to Crohn’s or Colitis… and Crohn’s was finally diagnosed when she had to undergo surgery for it. And even then, prior to the surgery, they still didn’t know why she was so sick. – >Thanks for your input. >BLink
- Sorry you had to come here. But Welcome to the "group". – – Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185
Response:
>I know this may sound bad, but what is MAP? I mean, I gather that it’s >bacteria sometiimes fond in milk, but I could never figure out what the >correlation to IBD was.
Mycobacterium Avium Paratuberculosis. It’s found in the colons of cattle with Johne’s disease, but is extremely difficult to culture for in humans due to the fact it only divides once or twice a day. The ability to culture it and locate it in assays of Crohn’s sufferers is not insignificant, even though there’s no direct evidence of transmission yet. The common sense reaction is 1. If it is found in Johne’s cattle 2. If those cattle continue to produce milk 3. If MAP cannot be killed through Pasteurization 4. It’s logical to suspect it getting into peoples’ guts. Crohn’s colons look like Johne’s colons. This observation was made back in 1913. So we’ve got a ton of circumstantial evidence, no smoking gun yet though. BLink
Response:
Found more frequently in Crohn’s folks then in non-IBD folks. That’s the short answer. Debs > I know this may sound bad, but what is MAP? I mean, I gather that it’s > bacteria sometiimes fond in milk, but I could never figure out what the > correlation to IBD was.
– remove YOURFOOT before responding
Response:
Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about 2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family have any warning signs. My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? Thanks BLink
Response:
I can tell you this, Crohn’s is NOT a contact disease! You can not catch it by sharing toilets or touching or any other way. I don’t know about Fistulas so I will let those who have had them tell you of them. I have hemorrhoids from having my son that get inflamed now with activities of my crohn’s when going to often but it’s not because of the crohn’s. Go to some good research sights to learn more. I don’t know where you got this information about being able to get crohn’s from MAP bacteria but I do understand your panic and worry about this disease and not knowing about it. I learned first from the wonderful people here who gave me links to sites that could teach me too like www.ccfa.org and other sites that are not selling things. If you would like more links, you can email me directly or ask here and others will provide more I am sure. You have to make sure you get to a reputable site because unfortunately there are a lot out there that are garbage. UM MOM Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you > haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about > 2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. > Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may > be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). > Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s > aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few > unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ > So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family > have any warning signs. > My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become > concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated > when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning > sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, > and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit > some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. > The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for > hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? > Thanks > BLink
Response:
Unmistakably horrible. Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Still trying to get my brain around this syndrome.. which, if you > haven’t read my earlier posts, was diagnosed in my 80-yr old dad about > 2 days ago – the first my family had ever really heard of it. > Two things I’ve learned since are 1) it can run in families 2) it may > be bacterial in nature (meaning others might catch through contact). > Poor dad has been plagued by explosive diarrhea for years, and as he’s > aged I’m sure my siblings and I had the chance to bump into a few > unfriendly MAP bacteria through our visits. =/ > So I’m running through the list of symptoms to see if I or my family > have any warning signs. > My brother has recently (and before my dad’s diagnosis) become > concerned that he is lactose-intolerant, due to becoming nauseated > when consuming dairy products. From my reading this might be a warning > sign. There are also issues with hemmorhoids in the immediate family, > and though it seems unrelated, my research on fistulae seems to hit > some similar themes – bloody issue, discomfort, etc. > The question for 12:23 Am then is; could a fistula be mistaken for > hemmorhoids? Or is a fistula unmistakably horrible? > Thanks > BLink
– remove YOURFOOT before responding
Response:
HI, Very sorry to hear that your father is suffering with this and that a diagnosis was so long in coming. I don’t have Crohn’s, I have severe UC so my info is related to what I know. Fissures (anal) can also seem like hemorrhoids. (Bleeding, painful when sitting and with BM’s etc). The Crohn’s crowd can fill you in on the fistulas better than I can, but from what I do know, fistulas don’t just happen at the anus. The fistula tunnels from any part of the affected intestine and may connect with other body parts (eg bladder). They are prone to infections since fecal material leaves the intestine and gets into areas it shouldn’t be. With fissures you don’t have this problem. I hope this helps. I also hope that your father and family find answers and health. Take care and keep us posted. NinaW
Response:
>I can tell you this, Crohn’s is NOT a contact disease! You can not catch it >by sharing toilets or touching or any other way. I don’t know about >Fistulas so I will let those who have had them tell you of them. I have >hemorrhoids from having my son that get inflamed now with activities of my >crohn’s when going to often but it’s not because of the crohn’s. Go to some >good research sights to learn more. I don’t know where you got this >information about being able to get crohn’s from MAP bacteria but I do
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