Gastritis / Stomach Ulcer – Help!
Question:
> >ulcers. Additionally, your triple whammy treatment for H. Pylori and >ulcers is what, about 70 to 80% effective, temporarily. Tsk, Tsk. > Gee, only 70 to 80% effective? How scandalous. As for temporarily, > that depends on reinfection. Oh, wait, you’re the guy who’s incapable > of accepting that bacteria can hurt the body — except when there’s > photographic evidence, and then you assert, without a shred of > justification, that only those bacteria can do it.
Brings back memories… >The title should read how one bacteria is proposed to invade humans. They >have not been shown to do so.
What does it take to show it. They were on one side of the mucous membrane, in the intestines, and then showed up in the bloodstream and organs of the test animals on the other side of the cell membrane … only species that have that particular cell protein on the surface of their cells were affected, and only Listeria with the other protein could affect them. How much more of a smoking gun doyou need? >Bacteria in food first meet the alkaline pH of saliva and the WBC present >within to sterilize the unwanted bacteria.
Ever take a culture of your mouth? Despite the alkaline pH and the occasional WBC, It’s loaded with bacteria that are happily living there. And how do the WBC get from the bone marrow where they are produced into the mouth anyway? They cross the mucous membranes. >Next, they meet the acidic stomach at a pH of around 1-2. Do Listeria survive >in this media?
They survive long enough to pass through into the intestines. That’s all they need to do, not set up housekeeping there. > More WBC are available to control the bacteria here as well.
How are the WBC surviving this acidic stomach at a pH of around 1-2 if the bacteria can’t? If one living organism can survive, why can’t others? And how do the WBC get from the bone marrow where they are produced into the stomach anyway? FYI, the food in the stomach dilutes the acid, and the saliva, being alkaline, neutralizes a small part of it. It’s not exactly pure HCL in there. >The med student is taught that the stomach is sterile except now for the >specialized bacteria called H. Pylori. Are we going to rewrite the medical >texts?
Stomach contents are NOT sterile, and I have never seen anyone claim that. It doesn’t have many permanent residents, but many micro-oprganisms can survive a trip through it into the more hospitable small intestine. >The intestines produce a mucus which keeps the normal flora bacteria from >direct contact with the cells. An active transport mechanism is in place to >get the nutrients through the mucus to the cell surface.
The normal muscular contractions of the small intestine makes everything in its contents get close to the walls sooner or later. The cells are covered with microvilli (tiny hair like things) whose wave-like motion moves the contents of the small intesting into the pockets between the villi … they are not selective, they are just moving the liquid up close transport across the cell membrane can happen. Anythjng floating or swimming in the contents is going to get a chance at the cell walls. There are several ways for things to cross a cell wall: This applies to food: Passive: The diffusion of small molecules. This requires litte energy and no carrier. Also called Simple Diffusion. Carrier-mediated: The diffusion of large molecules. Requires a small amount of energy and a carrier. Also called Facilitated Diffusion. Active: Absorption against a concentration gradient. Requires a lot of energy and a carrier. Pinocytosis: Literally the ingestion of liquid food. It requires the cell to change shape. (the cell membrane engulfs a small amount of liquid, creating a bubble of cell membrane with the liquid on the inside, then breaks the bubble off inside the cell) And then living things have other choices, once the movement of the fluids brings them into contact with the cell walls. Some viruses attach to a target molecule on the cell membrane and actually INJECT part of themselves through the membrane like a syringe. >The Listeria would have no chance to use their "key" even if they >did survive the trip to the intestines.
So when you feed lab animals with food that contains Listeria, and within hours you can find Listeria in the bloodstreams of the animals, just how did they get there? Teleportation? > >To cause food-borne infection, Listeria must move through the >stomach and then cross the intestine to enter the bloodstream, >Bacteria do not have the intelligence to mount an organized invasion.
This is a chemical reaction, and intelligence is not required. >They are lazy loafers fooking for a free meal.
Many bacteria are motile. >Getting through the mucus to actual contact with the intestinal cell >walls would be neigh on to impossible.
They are thoroughly mixed in with all the food you are digesting, and if the food gets close enough to the cells that do the absorption to be absorbed, the bacteria and viruses can get close enough to attach. There is no magic filter. >Getting into the blood stream is even more impossible. The pores which control >entry into and out the system are so small that even the blood proteins cannot >get out. You would have an easier time getting a semi-truck into your living >room.
But the much larger WBC get out, you just said they are in the stomach, and they have to make it from the bone marrow to the stomach somehow … you can find them in the intracellular fluids and they have been filmed going right out of the capillaries, through the walls, at the point where the cells touch. And they are much bigger than bacteria, yet can slither right through the intestinal lining and the mucus layer and be found in enormous numbers in the intestinal contents. >From the attached article: >"…how the Listeria bacterium invades the body’s organs to sicken and >sometimes kill people who eat contaminaated foods such as soft cheeses and hot >dogs." >We’re not supposed to eat rotten food full of bacteria and any toxins they >produce. Humans are not vultures and the eating of rotten food always makes >man sick.
So what DO you eat? Or are you a breathairian? >"In otherwise healthy adults, symptoms typically are far less severe, ranging >from gastrointestinal illness to mild fever and headache." >Seems like the tyical symptoms of food poisoning to me.
There are a limited range of symptoms the human body can produce … the difference being that you can find Listeria in the bloodstream and tissues of people with Listeriosis, and in the case of a miscarriage, the fetus will be heavily infected with them. >"Some 500 deaths a year are reported in the United States." >Yep, eatinig rotten food can be fatal. >"To cause food-bore infection, Listeria must move through the stomach and then >cross the intestine to enter the bloodstream, where it disseminates to the >central nervous system and the placenta." >Baloney. Infection yes. Sickness and death, no. All that needs to be present >is the toxins they produce. The chemical toxins can force entry into the body, >but not them dead and lazy bacteria.
STOP CALLING BACTERIA LAZY! You are insulting soem of my favorite critters! They are active organisma with extremely interesting lives. >The Listeria would have to compete with >the normal bacteria if they survived to get to the intestines, and they somehow >magically avoid the immune system.
Yes, they do have to compete with the normal flora, and even the WBC that are on patrol there, and they might not survive. Not all people who eat contaminated food get sick. In some people, they might be able to invade and multiply for a while, but eventually they run smack into the immune system and after a brief battle (which is where the fever and other symptoms come in), they usually lose. In a RARE FEW, they get the upper hand of the immune system and kill their host. > Traveling through the blood stream is >absurd. They can’t get in nor get out of that system even if they could >survive.
So how do the WBC that are in the mouth, stomach, intestines, bladder, semen, vagina, and intracellular fluids get there from the bone marrow where they are produced and the blood that transports them? And why can bacteria be retrieved from the blood by blood cultures in some illnesses? How do they get from the intestines to the blood in the arm where the cultures are taken? Teleportation? OH!!! COOL! Listeria can hijack a protein and avoid the bloodstream! "Listeria is able to travel from cell to cell by an ingenious technique that exploits the cell’s actin, a protein that can rapidly polymerize into filaments or depolymerize, giving the cell its plasticity. Actin is also essential for muscle contraction. One of the pathogen’s genes – actA – convinces the cell to polymerize its own actin at one end of its rod-shaped body. Thus actin filaments accumulate like a comet’s tail behind the bacterium which is propelled within the cell toward the infected cell’s membrane and eventually into an uninfected neighbor. This resourceful propulsion mechanism enables the pathogen to infect an increasing number of cells, completely bypassing the blood and lymph systems and thereby preventing any alert to the host’s immune system." Talk about a stealth delivery – it’s doing the bacterial equivalent of burglarizing a bank by breaking into the shop several doors down and going through the walls to avoid the guards. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"The animals received oral doses of Listeria, as well as a mutant, >internalin-free version of the bacterium." >At least they holstered their syringes. What toxins do the two types of >bacteria produce?
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Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> snipped >> And the company that makes the limu (Nature’s Bounty) >> is no more trustworthy speaking about their products. >> Here’s some of their history: > As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. > http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. > Cher > IMHO, Mercola is a nut. He and Francis E. Dec are at about the same level. > You can read Francis’ rants at http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/dec.html. > Not everything Mercola says is wrong, but he is prone to taking things out > of context and in some cases he is just plain wrong. I have debunked > Mercola’s site too many times to do it once again. Just browse the pages > he has on his website and you will see it. > With regards to "our side". It is at least responsible and does not wait > until the Feds take it to court and fine it hundreds of thousands of > dollars for lying to the consumer. Big Difference.
Yeah, there sure is a big difference; your side waits till people start dropping over dead, then they do a recall, and nobody fines them anything…Geeezzz….Consider for a moment….. 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery, 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals, 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals, 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals, 106,000 deaths/year from nonerror, adverse effects of medications. These total to 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes. Three caveats should be noted. First, most of the data are derived from studies in hospitalized patients. Second, these estimates are for deaths only and do not include adverse effects that are associated with disability or discomfort. Third, the estimates of death due to error are lower than those in the IOM report. If the higher estimates are used, the deaths due to iatrogenic causes would range from 230,000 to 284,000. In any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer.http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v284n4/full/jco00061.html > Nature’s Bounty was rotten and AFAIC, still is.
How many deaths have been connected to NBTY? Cher
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > snipped > >> And the company that makes the limu (Nature’s Bounty) > >> is no more trustworthy speaking about their products. > >> Here’s some of their history: > > As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. > > http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. > > Cher > IMHO, Mercola is a nut. He and Francis E. Dec are at about the same >level. > You can read Francis’ rants at http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/dec.html. > Not everything Mercola says is wrong, but he is prone to taking things out > of context and in some cases he is just plain wrong. I have debunked > Mercola’s site too many times to do it once again. Just browse the pages > he has on his website and you will see it. > With regards to "our side". It is at least responsible and does not wait > until the Feds take it to court and fine it hundreds of thousands of > dollars for lying to the consumer. Big Difference. >Yeah, there sure is a big difference; your side waits till people start >dropping over dead, then they do a recall, and nobody fines them >anything…Geeezzz….Consider for a moment….. 12,000 deaths/year from >unnecessary surgery, 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals, >20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals, 80,000 deaths/year from >nosocomial infections in hospitals, 106,000 deaths/year from nonerror, >adverse effects of medications. These total to 225,000 deaths per year from >iatrogenic causes. Three caveats should be noted. First, most of the data >are derived from studies in hospitalized patients. Second, these estimates >are for deaths only and do not include adverse effects that are associated >with disability or discomfort. Third, the estimates of death due to error >are lower than those in the IOM report. If the higher estimates are used, >the deaths due to iatrogenic causes would range from 230,000 to 284,000. In >any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading cause of >death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and >cancer.http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v284n4/full/jco00061.html
Sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh Cher!! We wanna talk about MLM, Nature’s Bounty, magnets, Cell Tech,,selling pimps, where poster have gone, IIena, Jan, Cher, Debbee, Scientology, cults, Hulda Clark,,,etc., etc., etc., Anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,but NOT all those needless mistakes and deaths. Those are *minor* don’tyaknow?? Jan
Response:
> As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. > http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. > Cher > They aren’t "my side". And what kind of a defense is that? > Are you saying that it’s okay for your company to lie and cheat > consumers just because a pharmaceutical company produced > an unsafe drug?
No one should lie and cheat…..My point was it’s a bit hypocritical to point a finger at NBTY (who has screwed up one time in 30 years), knowing that pharmecutical companies screw up on a regular basis. You call NBTY "rotten"????, sorry…but I fail to see your reasoning?? Cher.
Response:
snipped > And the company that makes the limu (Nature’s Bounty) > is no more trustworthy speaking about their products. > Here’s some of their history:
As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. Cher
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > snipped > And the company that makes the limu (Nature’s Bounty) > is no more trustworthy speaking about their products. > Here’s some of their history: > As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. > http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. > Cher
IMHO, Mercola is a nut. He and Francis E. Dec are at about the same level. You can read Francis’ rants at http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/dec.html. Not everything Mercola says is wrong, but he is prone to taking things out of context and in some cases he is just plain wrong. I have debunked Mercola’s site too many times to do it once again. Just browse the pages he has on his website and you will see it. With regards to "our side". It is at least responsible and does not wait until the Feds take it to court and fine it hundreds of thousands of dollars for lying to the consumer. Big Difference. Nature’s Bounty was rotten and AFAIC, still is. r — "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed, or numbered…My life is my own." "I am not a number. I am a free man." No. 6
Response:
> Cher knows about these references — she’s seen them before. > But that doesn’t stop her from recommending fucoidan, even > for someone who could be gravely injured by an anticoagulant. > She cares far more about the money than who gets hurt.
My post was very clear, and Mark knows perfectly well that I am NOT selling anything in here, he just likes to distract from Alternative suggestions. Limu is a wonderful supplement for ulcers and other gastrointestinal upsets. The fucoidan in it does not cause anyone to bleed, how totally ridiculous.. The amount used in research is obviously highly concentrated. Dr. Derrick DeSilva (named one of the top 10 Physicians in NYC for the 4th year) is a practicing Internist and the President of the American Nutricuetical Association. He is the author of Living with Lyme Disease and host of his own syndicated radio talk show called, Asked The Doctor…He is part of attending Staff of Raritan Bay Medical Center and Teaching staff of JFK Medical Center. He is a member of the AMA, ADA, AHA, and The Society of Internal Medicine. He is on the advisory board of Physicians Desk Reference and on the Advisory Board of the Natural Products Review. This prominent NYC Internist highly recommends Limu for digestive disorders…specifically ulcers. Cher
Response:
> > Cher knows about these references — she’s seen them before. > But that doesn’t stop her from recommending fucoidan, even > for someone who could be gravely injured by an anticoagulant. > She cares far more about the money than who gets hurt. > My post was very clear, and Mark knows perfectly well that I am NOT selling > anything in here, he just likes to distract from Alternative suggestions.
Baloney! You’re pumping the limu at every opportunity. You’re a distributor. You stand to benefit from increased limu sales. > Limu is a wonderful supplement for ulcers and other gastrointestinal upsets. > The fucoidan in it does not cause anyone to bleed, how totally ridiculous..
What evidence do you have for that? Fucoidan is a powerful anticoagulant. How do you know that it doesn’t affect bleeding ulcers? > The amount used in research is obviously highly concentrated.
On what basis do you say this? Do you have any facts to back it up, or are you just making it up as you go along? In this study, the anticoagulant effect was found at concentrations ranging from 3.75 to 14.6 micrograms per milliliter. A milliliter of water weighs exactly one gram, so these concentrations are down below 20 parts per million.: Thromb Haemost 1995 Nov;74(5):1280-5 Venous antithrombotic and anticoagulant activities of a fucoidan fraction. What levels of fucoidan do you think are in limu? Fucoidan makes up about 4% (40,000 parts per million) of the dry weight of kombu (another type of seaweed). > Dr. Derrick DeSilva (named one of the top 10 Physicians in NYC for the 4th > year) is a practicing Internist and the President of the American > Nutricuetical Association.
He’s a huckster for limu! You saw him speak at a limu distributor meeting! Obviously, he isn’t an objective source of information about limu. And the company that makes the limu (Nature’s Bounty) is no more trustworthy speaking about their products. Here’s some of their history: http://www.ftc.gov/os/1998/9803/aging98.rpt.htm "In 1995, the Commission issued a cease and desist order against Nature’s Bounty, Inc. and two of its subsidiaries to settle allegations that they made deceptive weight-loss, body-building, disease-treatment and/or other health-related claims for 26 nutrient supplements they marketed. The order prohibits the respondents from making various allegedly false claims, as well as requiring them to have substantiation for future health claims. The order also requires the respondents to pay $250,000 to the Commission — to be used for consumer redress, if practical, or to be paid to the U.S. Treasury."
Response:
>>Right — remove those h. pylori bugs from your stomach naturally. Use >tweezers. >Seems to me that only around 70% of ulcer patients have H. Pylori. >What is causing the other 30%?
Who knows? Birth defects? Stress? Stress is at least a possible candidate. H. pylori only causes, what, duodenal ulcers? >If H. Pylori really caused ulcers they would be present 100%of the >time and all those humans with H. Pylori and no ulcers would have
Nice to see your grasp of mathematics is on a par with your grasp of science. Just because some ulcers are caused by h. pylori doesn’t mean they all are. The earlier example by another poster about broken legs is quite applicable. >ulcers. Additionally, your triple whammy treatment for H. Pylori and >ulcers is what, about 70 to 80% effective, temporarily. Tsk, Tsk.
Gee, only 70 to 80% effective? How scandalous. As for temporarily, that depends on reinfection. Oh, wait, you’re the guy who’s incapable of accepting that bacteria can hurt the body — except when there’s photographic evidence, and then you assert, without a shred of justification, that only those bacteria can do it. >Geez, Chuck, what ill wind dragged your sorry carcass back onto this >newsgroup? It’s been moderately more sensible here with you gone. >I have been monitoring the scene. Since I do not engage in yes you >are- no I’m not games, there has been nothing to comment upon. And >yes, the germ theory of disease is still false.
Too many chalupas, Chuck. Your brain is disintegrating. >Bacteria are symptoms not causative agents. The virus is an excuse >for the doctor since they have no bacteria to blame your illness >upon.
And you’ll help us prove this by allowing us to innoculate you with whatever viruses we see fit? After all, they can’t hurt you. By the way, why is it that being bitten by a rabid animal causes rabies? >Of course, ulcers are not caused by not "resting" the stomach, but why >drag annoying facts like that into the discussion? >How would you know? That info comes from vitalistic/humanistic >medicine and not your scientific/mechanistic mumbo jumbo concoction >of voodoo medicine. >What was the prescribed treatment for ulcers prior to the "Sippy" bland diet >and how effective was it?
Beats the hell out of me — but apparently it wasn’t 100% or there would have been no reason to change, would there? Oh, I know you like to assert that your magic advice gives 100% results, but for some reason I’m disinclined to believe you. — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders."
Response:
– Any comments about specific nutritional supplements within the context of my posts are intended to add to the discussion at hand. Comments are not intended to sell, promote or persuade.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Cher knows about these references — she’s seen them before. > > But that doesn’t stop her from recommending fucoidan, even > > for someone who could be gravely injured by an anticoagulant. > > She cares far more about the money than who gets hurt. > My post was very clear, and Mark knows perfectly well that I am NOT selling > anything in here, he just likes to distract from Alternative suggestions. > Baloney! You’re pumping the limu at every opportunity. > You’re a distributor. You stand to benefit from increased > limu sales.
As I’ve said before you bring much more attention to Limu than I ever could. Those who can see what you’re doing, have most likely figured out just how good Limu is by the mere fact that you are so fiercly opposed to it. > Limu is a wonderful supplement for ulcers and other gastrointestinal upsets. > The fucoidan in it does not cause anyone to bleed, how totally ridiculous.. > What evidence do you have for that? Fucoidan is a > powerful anticoagulant. How do you know that it doesn’t > affect bleeding ulcers?
Dr. Derrick DeSilva (named one of the top 10 Physicians in NYC for the 4th year) is a practicing Internist and the President of the American Nutricuetical Association. He is the author of Living with Lyme Disease and host of his own syndicated radio talk show called, Asked The Doctor…He is part of attending Staff of Raritan Bay Medical Center and Teaching staff of JFK Medical Center. He is a member of the AMA, ADA, AHA, and The Society of Internal Medicine. He is on the advisory board of Physicians Desk Reference and on the Advisory Board of the Natural Products Review. This prominent NYC Internist highly recommends Limu for digestive disorders…specifically ulcers. That’s good enough for me. Cher
Response:
> As if you’re side of the fence is safe!. > http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/baycol.htm just for starters. > Cher
They aren’t "my side". And what kind of a defense is that? Are you saying that it’s okay for your company to lie and cheat consumers just because a pharmaceutical company produced an unsafe drug?
Response:
> Hi everyone, > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer.
When we have thicker blood .. either due to a lack of tocopherol .. or due to too many red blood cells .. polycythemia/erythrocytosis .. the blood is like a milkshake .. instead of water. This causes the blood not to be able to flow easily through the microvessels .. including the gut .. Hyperviscosity .. can also be caused by lipids in the blood .. I have been studying the effects of hyperviscosity / thick blood / erytrocytosis .. too many red blood cells in the body. This is due to what I believe to be the effects of too much iron. I believe as in the treatment of anemia when iron is used to raise red blood cells .. too much iron would raise TOO MANY red blood cells . This would lead to thick blood and therefore lack of circulation through the microvessels in the body .. milkshake versus water. I have been looking into gastrointestinal disorders. Trauma is KNOWN to induce hyperviscosity / thick blood .. and trauma is KNOWN to induce ‘colitis’. I believe this to be the lack of circulation through the microvessels that line the gut .. as evidenced I believe in the high rate of necrotizing enteritis in the newborn who present with polycythemia / thick blood / too many red blood cells. Restriction of a rat .. leads to hyperviscosity .. stress . I find the below to be interesting .. Ischemia – low blood flow .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html J Physiol Pharmacol 2002 Mar;53(1):39-50 Effects of reactive oxygen species action on gastric mucosa in various models of mucosal injury. Kwiecien S, Brzozowski T, Konturek SJ Department of Physiology, Jagiellonian University School of Medicine, Cracow, Poland. [Medline record in process] BACKGROUND: The exposure of gastric mucosa to damaging factors, such as ethanol, water restraint stress, or ischemia followed by reperfusion, produces pathological changes: inflammatory process, hemorrhagic erosions, even acute ulcers. The base of these changes is a disturbance of protective mechanisms and disrupture of gastric mucosal barrier. Previous studies pointed out the role of disturbances of gastric blood flow, mucus secretion and involvement of prostaglandins and nitric oxide formation in the pathomechanism of gastric mucosa lesions. The role of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in these processes has been little studied. Aim: The purpose of our present investigations is to explain the participation of ROS in acute gastric mucosal damage by various irritants. MATERIAL AND METHODS: Experiments were carrying out on 80 male Wistar rats. To assess gastric blood flow (GBF) laser Doppler flowmeter was used. The area of gastric lesions was established by planimetry. The levels of proinflammatory cytokines were measured by ELISA technique. The colorimetric assays were used to determine of malondialdehyde (MDA) and 4-hydroxynonenal (4-HNE) as well as superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity. RESULTS: We demonstrated that 3.5 h of water immersion and restraint stress (WRS), 30 min of gastric ischemia followed by 60 min of reperfusion or intragastric administration of 100% ethanol, all resulted in appearance of acute gastric mucosal lesions accompanied by a significant decrease of gastric blood flow. These lesions are also accompanied by the significant increase of proinflammatory cytokines including interleukin-1 beta (IL-1beta) and tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNFalpha) plasma level. Biological effects of ROS were estimated by measuring tissue level of MDA and 4-HNE, the products of lipid peroxydation by ROS, as well as the activity of SOD, the scavanger of ROS. It was established that 3.5 h of WRS, ischemia-reperfusion and 100% ethanol lead to significant increase of MDA and 4-HNE mucosal level, accompanied by a decrease of SOD activity (significant in WRS and ethanol application). CONCLUSIONS: The pathogenesis of experimental mucosal damage in rat stomach includes the generation of ROS that seem to play an important role, namely due to generation of lipid peroxides, accompanied by impairment of antioxidative enzyme activity of cells. PMID: 11939718, UI: 21936776 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Response:
> >Right — remove those h. pylori bugs from your stomach naturally. Use >tweezers. > Seems to me that only around 70% of ulcer patients have H. Pylori. What is > causing the other 30%? If H. Pylori really caused ulcers they would be present > 100%of the time and all those humans with H. Pylori and no ulcers would have > ulcers. Additionally, your triple whammy treatment for H. Pylori and ulcers is > what, about 70 to 80% effective, temporarily. Tsk, Tsk.
Isn’t it possible that those who have the H. Pylori bacteria and no ulcers,have an immune system which is functioning at a better capacity than those who develope ulcers? If one’s body is producing sufficient numbers of white blood cells (which should ingesst and destroy the H. Pyloria bacteria), doesn’t it make sense that they wouldn’t experience an ulcer formation? Cher – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Geez, Chuck, what ill wind dragged your sorry carcass back onto this >newsgroup? It’s been moderately more sensible here with you gone. > I have been monitoring the scene. Since I do not engage in yes you are- no I’m > not games, there has been nothing to comment upon. And yes, the germ theory > of disease is still false. Bacteria are symptoms not causative agents. The > virus is an excuse for the doctor since they have no bacteria to blame your > illness upon. >Of course, ulcers are not caused by not "resting" the stomach, but why >drag annoying facts like that into the discussion? > How would you know? That info comes from vitalistic/humanistic medicine and > not your scientific/mechanistic mumbo jumbo concoction of voodoo medicine. > What was the prescribed treatment for ulcers prior to the "Sippy" bland diet > and how effective was it? > Cee.
Response:
> >Right — remove those h. pylori bugs from your stomach naturally. Use >tweezers. > Seems to me that only around 70% of ulcer patients have H. Pylori. What is > causing the other 30%? If H. Pylori really caused ulcers they would be present > 100%of the time > Cee.
Falling out of a tree can cause a broken leg, so why is it that 100% of people with a broken leg didn’t do it by falling out of trees? Mark, MD
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> Try a search on something called Royal Tongan Limu. Scientists recently > reported that fucoidan (a naturally occurriing compound in the Limu plant) > PREVENTED the attachment of H. pylori (bacteria known to cause gastric > ulcers) to the cells which comprise the stomach lining. If the bacteria > cannot bind to the gastric cells, the ulcers will have a much more difficult > chance of forming, (if any chance at all).
If you have a bleeding ulcer, this is the worst advice you can get (though not unsurprising, coming from Cher — who is a distributor for the product). Fucoidan is a powerful anticoagulant. If you had uncontrolled bleeding, the last thing you want would be an anticoagulant. Here’s some references on the anticoagulant properties of fucoidan: Thromb Haemost 1999 Mar;81(3):391-5 Antithrombotic and anticoagulant activities of a low molecular weight fucoidan by the subcutaneous route. J Biomater Sci Polym Ed 1998;9(4):373-87 Comparative anticoagulant activity and influence on thrombin generation of dextran derivatives and of a fucoidan fraction. Thromb Haemost 1995 Nov;74(5):1280-5 Venous antithrombotic and anticoagulant activities of a fucoidan fraction. Biochem Pharmacol 1992 Apr 15;43(8):1853-8 Fibrinolytic and anticoagulant activities of highly sulfated fucoidan. Thromb Res 1991 Oct 15;64(2):143-54 Anticoagulant properties of a fucoidan fraction. Phytochemistry 1991;30(2):535-9 An anticoagulant fucoidan from the brown seaweed Ecklonia kurome. Cher knows about these references — she’s seen them before. But that doesn’t stop her from recommending fucoidan, even for someone who could be gravely injured by an anticoagulant. She cares far more about the money than who gets hurt.
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>> > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. >Try a search on something called Royal Tongan Limu.
Cher – Is there ANY condition that you will not recommend that crap for? Tsu Dho Nimh The neat thing about free speech, practiced properly, is that *everyone* gets to do it.
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>I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor etc. so >there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", although I am >sure someone will avail of the oppertunity…
Call around until you find a damned doctor who works for a free or sliding scale clinic. If you REALLY have an ulcer, it can be dangerous to fatal if untreated or self medicated. They can erode thorugh the stomach wall and dump gastric juices into your abdominal cavity and that’s usually fatal, or they can erode through an artery wall and then you throw up blood or just bleed to death in several minutes. >I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) [84 >mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the Zantac today >to see if it was any better and it seemed a little better. >Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that would >help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating?
Until you are sure what you have, medication is pointless and perhaps dangerous. A friend’s husband self-medicated his "ulcer" for months. It was pancreatitis and he died when it went from bad to really bad. Other persons have mistaken gall bladder infections and even aortic aneurisms for "ulcers" and died because of it. >Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some kind of >prescription drugs to make it go away?
Proper diagnosis and treatment – abdominal pain is often from things that can kill you if untreated. Tsu Dho Nimh The neat thing about free speech, practiced properly, is that *everyone* gets to do it.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi everyone, >I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. >and what should I be / not be eating? >Thanks in advance for any information, >There is a cause for every ailment. Remove the cause and allow the body to >heal.
Right — remove those h. pylori bugs from your stomach naturally. Use tweezers. Geez, Chuck, what ill wind dragged your sorry carcass back onto this newsgroup? It’s been moderately more sensible here with you gone. >For my money, I would go with natural hygiene. Learn how to eat without >getting indigestion and learn how to rest the stomach to let it heal.
Of course, ulcers are not caused by not "resting" the stomach, but why drag annoying facts like that into the discussion? — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders."
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>Right — remove those h. pylori bugs from your stomach naturally. Use >tweezers.
Seems to me that only around 70% of ulcer patients have H. Pylori. What is causing the other 30%? If H. Pylori really caused ulcers they would be present 100%of the time and all those humans with H. Pylori and no ulcers would have ulcers. Additionally, your triple whammy treatment for H. Pylori and ulcers is what, about 70 to 80% effective, temporarily. Tsk, Tsk. >Geez, Chuck, what ill wind dragged your sorry carcass back onto this >newsgroup? It’s been moderately more sensible here with you gone.
I have been monitoring the scene. Since I do not engage in yes you are- no I’m not games, there has been nothing to comment upon. And yes, the germ theory of disease is still false. Bacteria are symptoms not causative agents. The virus is an excuse for the doctor since they have no bacteria to blame your illness upon. >Of course, ulcers are not caused by not "resting" the stomach, but why >drag annoying facts like that into the discussion?
How would you know? That info comes from vitalistic/humanistic medicine and not your scientific/mechanistic mumbo jumbo concoction of voodoo medicine. What was the prescribed treatment for ulcers prior to the "Sippy" bland diet and how effective was it? Cee.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. > I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor > etc. so there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", > although I am sure someone will avail of the oppertunity… > I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) > [84 mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the > Zantac today to see if it was any better and it seemed a little > better. > Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that > would help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating? > Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some > kind of prescription drugs to make it go away? > Thanks in advance for any information, > Dave. > — > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > "Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by > ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused > by an optical fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic > than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics. ", Tom > Robbins.
It takes a prescription drug or surgery to make it go away. If you don’t get it, you are going to die. Ulcers are cured with anti-biotics these days. My father and mother nerly died from them. Surgery cured them. Now anti-biotics can cure you. Don’t see the doctor and die. It is your choice. Love, rich — "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed, or numbered…My life is my own." "I am not a number. I am a free man." No. 6
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Hi everyone, I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor etc. so there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", although I am sure someone will avail of the oppertunity… I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) [84 mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the Zantac today to see if it was any better and it seemed a little better. Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that would help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating? Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some kind of prescription drugs to make it go away? Thanks in advance for any information, Dave. — _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optical fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics. ", Tom Robbins.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. > I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor etc. so > there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", although I am > sure someone will avail of the oppertunity… > I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) [84 > mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the Zantac today > to see if it was any better and it seemed a little better. > Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that would > help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating? > Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some kind of > prescription drugs to make it go away? > Thanks in advance for any information, > Dave. > I would say you would want to do a search of ‘H pylori’ .. > Since it has been found to be linked to almost all ulcers .. > The going treatment is antibiotics and bismuth .. > So .. a natural combo of natural antibiotics .. and something with bismuth > in it .. > Since the ‘mode of action’ of many antibiotics work by binding up > iron .. I would look into .. phytic acid / Ip6 / inositol hexaphosphate
Who loves ya. Tom Try a search on something called Royal Tongan Limu. Scientists recently reported that fucoidan (a naturally occurriing compound in the Limu plant) PREVENTED the attachment of H. pylori (bacteria known to cause gastric ulcers) to the cells which comprise the stomach lining. If the bacteria cannot bind to the gastric cells, the ulcers will have a much more difficult chance of forming, (if any chance at all). It works well. So well that the company marketing it has seen sales growth that exceeded 1,000% in both the 2nd and 3rd quarters of 2001. I AM NOT SELLING Limu within this group as it is against the rules. I’m sorry you cannot see your doctor, since it really is always best to check with him/her prior to begining anything new…But at least try the search on the Limu product and investigate it further. Best of luck. Healthy Blessings! Cher
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>Hi everyone, >I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. >and what should I be / not be eating? >Thanks in advance for any information, >Dave.
There is a cause for every ailment. Remove the cause and allow the body to heal. For my money, I would go with natural hygiene. Learn how to eat without getting indigestion and learn how to rest the stomach to let it heal. Try spending $7.50 for Fit for Life Vol I. Learn how to eat without causing indigestion. Then learn how to heal the condition. Works great for my clients, and I always give them the book to make sure that they have it. Cee.
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Errr….what on earth makes you think you have an ulcer or gastritis? Self diagnosis is a very dangerous game and persuing treatment in this way is risky. At your peril….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. > I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor etc. so > there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", although I am > sure someone will avail of the oppertunity… > I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) [84 > mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the Zantac today > to see if it was any better and it seemed a little better. > Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that would > help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating? > Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some kind of > prescription drugs to make it go away? > Thanks in advance for any information, > Dave. > — > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > "Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance > and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optical > fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is > complicated by exposure to politics. ", Tom Robbins.
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> Hi everyone, > I believe that I have either Gastritis or a Stomach Ulcer. > I should say now that I have no money to be able to go to the doctor etc. so > there’s no point in telling me "Just go to the damn doctor!", although I am > sure someone will avail of the oppertunity… > I have been taking non-prescription strength Zantac (Ranitidine HCl) [84 > mg.] about twice daily to ease the pain. I stopped taking the Zantac today > to see if it was any better and it seemed a little better. > Anyway to get to the point – what can I buy without prescription that would > help heal the condition and what should I be / not be eating? > Is it something that can heal itself or something which takes some kind of > prescription drugs to make it go away? > Thanks in advance for any information, > Dave.
I would say you would want to do a search of ‘H pylori’ .. Since it has been found to be linked to almost all ulcers .. The going treatment is antibiotics and bismuth .. So .. a natural combo of natural antibiotics .. and something with bismuth in it .. Since the ‘mode of action’ of many antibiotics work by binding up iron .. I would look into .. phytic acid / Ip6 / inositol hexaphosphate .. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
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