Now Coda beeps!
Question:
shelly you may have to repeat this in about two weeks. check with the vet. also nemex over the counter will work just as well on hooks should you want to use it. but the panacur will also take care of whip and they are wicked and hard to find so this will get all of them . but if just hookworm periodically you may want to use the nemex. stool checks are often not accurate. i think they pick hook up even through the pads of the feet . i say this as nemex is milder and so much safer for repeated uses. my opinion . i use both the panacur twice a year on mine and the nemex for hook and round in between. even a 4 week old pup can take the nemex so i feel better with it. but it doesnt work on whip so i use the panacur twice a year.—whip is far worse then hook and harder to get rid of by far.
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they do have concentrate to treat the soil for hook and yes it can get into one through the skin even on people i have heard. but whip is not treatable and even cold in winter doesnt kill and i think cold winters kills the hook. so if i had my choice hook is easier to get rid of. you see the nemex is the same as they would give a person for hook but i dont know the dose of concentrate for the human. glad its not a problem here in the 240 in. a winter snow area where i live. at least winters kill them off. i have had hook here but i never got it and hope i never do. ekk. i see the posting where the electric co. men have gotten it? and i work in the soil all the time.
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i bet it is that whip the buglady said would live ten years . nasty and hard to detect in the stool checks. i had a dog that had 7 stool checks and all were neg and i kept insisting was whip and the vet would not admit it . finally he did and only after my entire kennel had them. pissed me off a great deal as you cant get them out of the soil thanks to him not knowing or admitting. so hence i have to panacur forever as it will always be in the soild forever . — brought them here when i got a husky sled dog from a warm area. vet kept saying colitis . i bet that 40 % of the so called colitis in dogs is actually misdiagnosed whip worms. my feelings.
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> …….Dear girl! Stress is really the number one killer. Continual stress > on a system makes things go out of whack. Any organism that is stressed is > more susceptible. I know you know this…. 
Don’t have the faintest > idea why in the case of hookworms.
Exactly, I mean, I DO know that. I guess what I’m wondering is, and I’m pretty observant w/ my dogs, if they’re showing no other physical signs of "stress", how do I know!? We call Coda "The Fragile Flower", because I know he’s more sensitive to things that Guiness (good descrip of Guiness would be Eeyore in a good mood!). But, from what I can tell, he is overall a happy dog. Lots of love, structure, exercise & good food. Oh yes, I know the havoc stress can wreak on a body. During college, I was in a practical continual stressed state (and not really even knowing it, to me it was just everyday life!). Migraines, allergies much worse than usual, sinus infections two or three times a year, ulcer, back aches (heart problems, high blood pressure–two of which I am luckily free of!) Too bad for me it wasn’t until my senior year I took the Alternative Meds course! Having been a subscriber to Western medicine my entire life, it was so eye-opening to read about Mind/Body medicine, and Ayurveda, in particular. Thank you for all of the great info!! Shelly, Coda & Guiness..
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> shelly you may have to repeat this in about two weeks. check with the > vet. also nemex over the counter will work just as well on hooks should > you want to use it. but the panacur will also take care of whip and > they are wicked and hard to find so this will get all of them . but if > just hookworm periodically you may want to use the nemex. stool checks > are often not accurate. i think they pick hook up even through the > pads of the feet
Yep, vet wants him re-checked in a month. I treated the lawn & kitchen linoleum w/ a weak (like 3-4%) bleach solution. Also washed all bedding & toys in hot H2O w/ bleach added. As soon as she gives the go-ahead, he’ll be started on Interceptor as well, which will help in parasite control as well. Thanks to everyone for all the help! Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
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>Question for you: >I was reading up on Hookworms. I read that one stage is called the >"sandworm". Any ideas why?
site on the southern dog hookworms, http://web.missouri.edu/~vmicrorc/Nematoda/Strongylids/Hooks/Acaninum… The Uncinaria are the northern hookworms. It seems they are nematodes, as are most of the persistent parasites (heartworm and roundworm for instance). Here’s a page on the classification of Nematodes: http://web.missouri.edu/~vmicrorc/Taxonomy/Taxnemat.htm where you can see many familiar faces. You might also check the CDC site to see what they say about length of time they’re viable in soil. Can’t remember if its whips or hooks that can hang around for 10 years. >I’m curious, do they thrive better in sandy >type soil? (which we definitely do not have here–very clayey).
…….In soils that have high organic matter and have a lot of clay you get water retention, something that doesn’t happen in a sandy soil. With a source of water there’s lots more of that miniscule life (soil biota) such as fungi (there’s even nematode trapping fungi – 2 kinds – one makes a sticky lollipop structure that the nematode gets its mouth stuck on - the fungus then grows inside the nematode and another makes a lasso which entraps the nematode), bacteria and entomopathic nematodes (those are the carnivorous nematodes like the kind you can buy for your lawn that control fleas). The nematode would easily be a host for many of these soil organisms so they’d have a tougher time sitting around in the soil waiting for their host to pass by without getting consumed by some other form of life. In rainy season sandy soil probably drains off fast enough that they don’t drown. In heavy clay soils they might drown, though they appear to be sheathed (protected) and nonfeeding in their most infective form (L3). The life stages up until L3 are all bacteria feeders and really just hang out in the poop eating away for 3 weeks, so this is one parasite where it helps to pick up stools. I would imagine that some of them would migrate into the top layers of soil if the stool is allowed to sit there. >And… >That dogs are more susceptible/show physical symptoms of hookworms during >times of stress. "Hookworms are liekly to be a problem during periods of >stress." (Carlson & Giffin’s Dog Owner’s Home Veterinary Handbook.) So, >now do I need to worry if he’s stressed out too?
…….Dear girl! Stress is really the number one killer. Continual stress on a system makes things go out of whack. Any organism that is stressed is more susceptible. I know you know this…. Don’t have the faintest idea why in the case of hookworms. The website mentions immune status as a factor and that adult dogs have a *premune* status due to presence of arrested larvae. (Their Glossary defines premune : the presence of an infective agent in the body causes an immune response, if there is a very small amount of infective agents present which cause no disease state, the immune response is maintained and the animal is "immune" to further clinical infection.) So maybe a couple of parasites are a good thing – in this case its probably the hookworms they talk about that go into an arrested state. Now that he’s had them, he has more resistance to them. buglady take out the dog before replying
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> …….Actually you don’t have to go barefoot. I hear the telephone repair > people who work or dig near the junction boxes get hookworm quite > frequently. Something to think about if you’re an *earth mover* yourself!
Question for you: I was reading up on Hookworms. I read that one stage is called the "sandworm". Any ideas why? I believe it was on a website, so the validity of it is suspect. I’m curious, do they thrive better in sandy type soil? (which we definitely do not have here–very clayey). And… That dogs are more susceptible/show physical symptoms of hookworms during times of stress. "Hookworms are liekly to be a problem during periods of stress." (Carlson & Giffin’s Dog Owner’s Home Veterinary Handbook.) So, now do I need to worry if he’s stressed out too? Shelly (No one ever said having a dog is an easy job!), Coda (Yeah, but you know you love it, Mom!) & Guiness…
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Young dogs get it more than older ones too nope I think you just hit an infestation area (and did the play area get used the right time between exposure and infection – it takes a while before you see the results of exposure so might be he got it somewhere else entirely) My understanding is if you live in a more southern climate the hookworm is more prevalent (hey something useful from all that cold weather and snow!) The larvae hang around in the soil and burrow through skin so any exposure to infected dirt can give you a problem. Did you know that worm infestation can slow learning down and cause a dog to be very distractible? I found with all the rescue Danes that removing the parasites did wonders for the dog’s abilities in the training area – apparently the toxins and the bloodloss and the general state of feeling slows the learning down and decreases the attention span. Nancy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> …….Actually you don’t have to go barefoot. I hear the telephone > repair > people who work or dig near the junction boxes get hookworm quite > frequently. Something to think about if you’re an *earth mover* yourself! > Question for you: > I was reading up on Hookworms. I read that one stage is called the > "sandworm". Any ideas why? I believe it was on a website, so the > validity of it is suspect. I’m curious, do they thrive better in sandy > type soil? (which we definitely do not have here–very clayey). > And… > That dogs are more susceptible/show physical symptoms of hookworms during > times of stress. "Hookworms are liekly to be a problem during periods of > stress." (Carlson & Giffin’s Dog Owner’s Home Veterinary Handbook.) So, > now do I need to worry if he’s stressed out too? > Shelly (No one ever said having a dog is an easy job!), Coda (Yeah, but you > know you love it, Mom!) & Guiness…
Response:
> Hookworms can be picked up by just being on infected ground barefoot – as > dogs lick the feet to clean them well it improves the odds they will pick it > up.
Yep, that is my theory. Wanna hear something gross? As kids, we used to run around barefoot quite frequently. We lived on a farm, we were farmkids My brothers & I got hookworm, Mom thought from our neighbors yard (they had dogs/kids/yard that were very unkept). Coda is very meticulous about cleaning his feet, and licks them as an occasional nervous habit (like when at the vets in the kennel), and not a poop eater. And, I just introduced Coda to a new dog-park play area last week, from what I’ve read infestation signs will show between 4 (early) to 8 days. Dammit, it was nice to be able to take him somewhere new, to work on distraction training. *grrr* > Mostly I pick up problem parasites at dog shows 
plenty of dogs and > plenty of infectious poop there too. > So I use (along with regular stool checking and appropriate meds) > Interceptor for heartworm prevention which is supposed to help prevent > infection by the parasites.
Which I could just kick myself. I _just_ had him heartworm tested a few weeks ago, and ordered a 6 mos. box of Interceptor (he’s 1/2 Collie, so I’m playing it safe) online. I just received it in the mail Monday, and planned to start him on it the 1st of May! *laugh* I’ll let him detox a bit from the Panacur before I start (one more thing to ask the vet Monday!). I really like my vet, and when we were all getting ready to go home, she said, "Go home & take care of your dogs", I just thanked her for _not_ telling me he had cancer. :-) Then, I proceeded to mow the yard, mix up a weak (like 2-3%) bleach solution and spray the grass with it while DH kept the dogs entertained in the house. All bedding, kennels, floors being scrubbed today. Yay. Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
Response:
As kids, we used to >run around barefoot quite frequently. We lived on a farm, we were farmkids >:-) My brothers & I got hookworm,
…….Actually you don’t have to go barefoot. I hear the telephone repair people who work or dig near the junction boxes get hookworm quite frequently. Something to think about if you’re an *earth mover* yourself! buglady take out the dog before replying
Response:
His turned out to be colitis, with fiber treatment as >therapy.
….Out of curiosity, what do they use for *fiber treatment*? buglady take out the dog before replying
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>I’m just so thankful it isn’t cancer.
OMG! I was totally worried, too, that it might be cancer. I was SO relieved that it’s just colitis.. And I’m happy to hear your guy has an easily fixed problem as well. "Well maggots bother me, but bodily fluids aren’t that big a deal" courtesy of Robin D.
Response:
>My wording, not theirs. I’m giving him oatmeal and/or canned pumpkin with his >regular food to boost the fiber content.
…..Oh! OK – thought it was some new treatment! buglady take out the dog before replying
Response:
Hookworms can be picked up by just being on infected ground barefoot – as dogs lick the feet to clean them well it improves the odds they will pick it up. Mostly I pick up problem parasites at dog shows plenty of dogs and plenty of infectious poop there too. So I use (along with regular stool checking and appropriate meds) Interceptor for heartworm prevention which is supposed to help prevent infection by the parasites. Nancy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The three things I was thinking it may be: > Colitis > Hookworm > or *dread* polyps or cancerous matter in the small intestine/colon. > Turned out to be hookworm! I am a bit surprised, since I’m a poop > picker-upper fanatic. However, we’ve visited a popular place for dogs to > run around three times this week, and had never been there before. > So, I brought home dosages for both dogs for the next three days of Panacur. > I’m just so thankful it isn’t cancer. > Shelly (the paranoid), Coda & Guiness… > > He’s off to work w/ at the clinic me this a.m., suspicious diahrrea that > >past two days, and a little blood in it here & there as of yesterday > >(yellowish pooh, bright red blood, no noticeable stench, and a bit mucusy > >last night). First noticed it Thurs p.m., no vomiting, no other change > in > >activity. > Hey! I just brought my dog to the U of M’s vet teaching hospital (after > hours, > too.. damn!) for that. His turned out to be colitis, with fiber treatment > as > therapy. I hope Coda’s is just a little colitis, too. > "Well maggots bother me, but bodily fluids aren’t that big a deal" > courtesy of > Robin D.
Response:
>.Out of curiosity, what do they use for *fiber treatment*?
My wording, not theirs. I’m giving him oatmeal and/or canned pumpkin with his regular food to boost the fiber content. "Well maggots bother me, but bodily fluids aren’t that big a deal" courtesy of Robin D.
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> He’s off to work w/ at the clinic me this a.m., suspicious diahrrea that >past two days, and a little blood in it here & there as of yesterday >(yellowish pooh, bright red blood, no noticeable stench, and a bit mucusy >last night). First noticed it Thurs p.m., no vomiting, no other change in >activity.
Hey! I just brought my dog to the U of M’s vet teaching hospital (after hours, too.. damn!) for that. His turned out to be colitis, with fiber treatment as therapy. I hope Coda’s is just a little colitis, too. "Well maggots bother me, but bodily fluids aren’t that big a deal" courtesy of Robin D.
Response:
The three things I was thinking it may be: Colitis Hookworm or *dread* polyps or cancerous matter in the small intestine/colon. Turned out to be hookworm! I am a bit surprised, since I’m a poop picker-upper fanatic. However, we’ve visited a popular place for dogs to run around three times this week, and had never been there before. So, I brought home dosages for both dogs for the next three days of Panacur. I’m just so thankful it isn’t cancer. Shelly (the paranoid), Coda & Guiness…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> He’s off to work w/ at the clinic me this a.m., suspicious diahrrea that >past two days, and a little blood in it here & there as of yesterday >(yellowish pooh, bright red blood, no noticeable stench, and a bit mucusy >last night). First noticed it Thurs p.m., no vomiting, no other change in >activity. > Hey! I just brought my dog to the U of M’s vet teaching hospital (after hours, > too.. damn!) for that. His turned out to be colitis, with fiber treatment as > therapy. I hope Coda’s is just a little colitis, too. > "Well maggots bother me, but bodily fluids aren’t that big a deal" courtesy of > Robin D.
Response:
hoping christy yours wont be necessary. i dont know as i am no expert but i had two dogs that the vet said HD and neither had any surgery and both lived until 16 . so i guess it depends if the dog as lots of problems or not. sometimes you are lucky. my one ran on a sled team even and she was not as fast as the others but she loved it. never limped and i often thought maybe the vet was wrong. so as i say time will tell.
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> Shelly, you might want to look into carting/pulling of some sort. I > remember reading about this in conjunction with one of the guide dog > programs and hip dysplasia. Pulling tends to help build some hind end > muscles that others don’t.
I would never have thought of that! I wonder? I’d have to find a lightweight cart, he’s only 70 lbs, and small-boned. I wonder how he’d like that, he’s very much a "free" dog, so I don’t know how he’d feel about pulling anything! *laugh* He’s off to work w/ at the clinic me this a.m., suspicious diahrrea that past two days, and a little blood in it here & there as of yesterday (yellowish pooh, bright red blood, no noticeable stench, and a bit mucusy last night). First noticed it Thurs p.m., no vomiting, no other change in activity. He was off food last night (my choice, he’d have eaten if I’d have put it down). He’s pretty much been by my side the past two days, however, so it’s _very unlikely_ he could’ve gotten into anything. When we’re at work, they are restricted to a "dog proofed" living room & kitchen. We’ll see… Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
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> So, it’s been almost 10 mos. since (he’s a week shy of 20mos. old). I’d > say > he’s done growing, with the exception of his coat. And, with his build, > he’s larger in the front than the back–and seems to carry most of himself > on the front (larger chest, small hindquarters). > Do you think this is because of the HD? Does he have good muscle tone in his > hind end?
No, he is just physically "larger" in front, his build is similar to that of a Collie somewhat in the front, and more BCish down the chest, thru the hindquarters. He’s also got a bit of "mane", so it gives an illusion of a larger front-end too. And, yes–he’s got wonderful muscle tone everywhere (‘cept in his brain, I think! hee hee) . > As you should! > I think in your case, with it just being the one hip, that surgery might be > a better choice than for my case.
That was my line of thinking as well, as well as his vets. She’s got a bad hip/bad knees dog herself (a 5 year old Lab/rot mix), and she’s been really understanding about this, and was her thinking too. Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
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> So, it’s been almost 10 mos. since (he’s a week shy of 20mos. old). I’d say > he’s done growing, with the exception of his coat. And, with his build, > he’s larger in the front than the back–and seems to carry most of himself > on the front (larger chest, small hindquarters). He’s still quite active, I > just am looking for ways to keep him exercised and stimulated. He seems to > enjoy obedience, but it’s not a very "athletic" sport, but we play tons of > "fetch" and "find it"–actually thinking of going to a tracking seminar next > month.
Shelly, you might want to look into carting/pulling of some sort. I remember reading about this in conjunction with one of the guide dog programs and hip dysplasia. Pulling tends to help build some hind end muscles that others don’t. If you have something like a cart, you can gradually increase the difficulty by increasing the weight pulled. In addition to that, try doing some of your obedience on hills. A bit smaller than Mt Tabor to start. 
Karen, Random and Robin
Response:
. > Is your vet advocating surgery now?
No, I asked about surgery options that may be available (the tax refund comment was just a bitch–it would be awhile, esp. since my tax refund was pretty small. ) She did mention that it may be better, since he’s still young, but to definitely consult a specialist. How long ago was the first set of x-rays > done?
What symptoms is he having, and are they different from when he was > originally diagnosed? How is his other hip?
First set done at 10 mos. After a hard day of playing with my parents Lab pup, he was limping a bit (was a Fri–told myself if it wasn’t better by Mon, I’d take him in). Got a little better, and not constant–only when first getting up and after hard exercise. Went to the vet, even though it looked better, he was still limping. Vet (old vet, we’ve got a different one now) thought it was a strained/pulled muscle & to get leashed exercise and rest, give 1/4 of an aspirin if it appears to really bother him, watch for 2 weeks. We did, only giving aspirin once, maybe twice, but he still limped occasionally after a 30 minute walk. I requested an X-ray. It was evaluated by a radiology specialist, but not OFA. He actually shows very few signs now, and I monitor him for any "clues" he may give (lying down during play sessions–a sure sign of tiredness). He’s kept trim, and I’ve had him on Synovi-Cre (glucosamine/creatine) since then (July), and I think it has helped (I KNOW it’s been helpful for my 12 yr old GSD w/ degerative myelopathy!). I basically wanted a re-do to see if there was any quick progression, if it was only one hip, and to discuss any operation options down the road. We looked at several photos, mild thru severe and even I could see the difference in the hips (left/right), and although it was worse than the "mild" examples, it was not as bad as the "moderate" examples. So, it’s been almost 10 mos. since (he’s a week shy of 20mos. old). I’d say he’s done growing, with the exception of his coat. And, with his build, he’s larger in the front than the back–and seems to carry most of himself on the front (larger chest, small hindquarters). He’s still quite active, I just am looking for ways to keep him exercised and stimulated. He seems to enjoy obedience, but it’s not a very "athletic" sport, but we play tons of "fetch" and "find it"–actually thinking of going to a tracking seminar next month. It’s a weird thing, regarding surgery, I hear many people say "wait, see if it’s really necessary" and many say, "do it now, while he’s still young". I guess I just want to do what’s best for *my* dog. :-) Being a mix, I debated on whether it is worth it or not to send them to OFA. But, they’re the experts, and it really isn’t that expensive so I figured what the hell. Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
Response:
> So, it’s been almost 10 mos. since (he’s a week shy of 20mos. old). I’d say > he’s done growing, with the exception of his coat. And, with his build, > he’s larger in the front than the back–and seems to carry most of himself > on the front (larger chest, small hindquarters).
Do you think this is because of the HD? Does he have good muscle tone in his hind end? > It’s a weird thing, regarding surgery, I hear many people say "wait, see if > it’s really necessary" and many say, "do it now, while he’s still young". > I guess I just want to do what’s best for *my* dog.
As you should! I think in your case, with it just being the one hip, that surgery might be a better choice than for my case. I think with Dakota having two bad hips, in one way its better since they are equal and can keep the same muscle tone etc. – of course its worse overall since if he needs surgery it is twice as awful. After having to have him on limited/no exercise due to a front leg injury recently, I know it would be *hell* to deal with him recovering from surgery – he won’t poop on leash (its *embarassing* yannow!) and he did not comprehend the no-exercise thing at all, especially when I took Bodhi out for exercise/classes. I don’t know if surgery is done on both hips at once, if that is possible then at least I’d have one recovery time instead of two. It may never even be necessary, I hope. Christy
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Coda was micro-chipped today, and is officially heartworm negative (not that I figured anything else). Nor did he require any drugs for the x-ray done on his hips. Left hip still looks all chunky. Obviously the displaysia isn’t anything different from what the 10 month old radiographs showed. Mild to Moderate. It’s being sent off to OFA for the "official" results, but just to look at it, it’s not good. I’m off to get a few surgeons names, and a consultation or two. Hell, I didn’t need that tax refund. Shelly, Coda & Guiness… — Guiness & Coda’s Page! http://www.angelfire.com/or2/brosnan/pets.html "Try hard, everyday, to be as good a person that your dog thinks you are…" ~Anonymous
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> Coda was micro-chipped today, and is officially heartworm negative (not that > I figured anything else). Nor did he require any drugs for the x-ray done > on his hips. > Left hip still looks all chunky. Obviously the displaysia isn’t anything > different from what the 10 month old radiographs showed. Mild to Moderate. > It’s being sent off to OFA for the "official" results, but just to look at > it, it’s not good. > I’m off to get a few surgeons names, and a consultation or two. > Hell, I didn’t need that tax refund.
Is your vet advocating surgery now? How long ago was the first set of x-rays done? What symptoms is he having, and are they different from when he was originally diagnosed? How is his other hip? I’m coming close to a year since Dakota was diagnosed and I’m considering having another set of x-rays done, just to see if there have been any changes, but I’ll probably wait a while longer. Of course, Dakota is a few years older than Coda, and it sounds like his case is a bit worse, though if its only in one hip thats better. I don’t know if I’ll bother sending them in to OFA when I get them done, unless there are drastic changes or something. Christy
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